I'll Fly Away

Well, I'll really go driving, about 600 miles back home. It's going to be time to go home soon and I don't know if I'll have time to write again between now and then. So I'll be like the Book of Mormon, saying goodbye for now, unless I write again, which I don't know that I will do.

Molly and Peter ought to get married as soon as possible and learn to deal with the world together. That's all I'll say about them.

As for Utah. There's nice scenery, the people are nice and there are plenty of people to choose from to date. But the game here is just not played honestly. My roommates, by the way, guys who couldn't believe what women would do, were just as guilty. They would lie, pretend to not care, grow tired of their girlfriends easy, make up a reason to break up and go looking for someone better. These are good guys. They've just adapted to the game.

The game also includes not being real about why it's over. You've either got a missionary, not ready for anything serious right now, or you just wait to let you admit the obvious. Whatever you do, don't risk not being nice. Don't tell me the truth, that you just don't feel it for me, that you want someone who's going to make more money, or that the thought of spending the rest of your life with me just makes you sick. I had a few girlfriends before I came to Utah. They said those three things to me. Sure, they used different language, but they didn't make things up. One said there was chemistry missing (she was right), one said she couldn't imagine marrying someone who was going to do _______ for a living (that's my little secret). She tried to make moral arguments against the line of work I want to pursue, but in the end I got her to admit it was about the money. Another girl said she couldn't picture us together. Turned out she could and it nearly made her vomit.

As hard as those explanations might have been to hear, it was preferable to the lies I've heard here. I've seen lots of happy marriages resulted from people who date here, but I've decided the only way I win the Utah dating game is if I don't play. Have fun. Surf's up!

Too much of a view?

I just glanced at Molly's blog (link to the right) and it looks like things didn't go well with Peter tonight. I was a little curious and had remembered that she was planning to see a movie with him, a movie I had never seen. I remembered the comments on that posting had a bunch of people saying thinks like "Don't say anything," and having not seen the movie I didn't know what they were talking about. After seeing her blog tonight I just asked my roommate about "A Room with a View." If the disaster she's speaking of was the movie, apparently Molly has now seen male genitalia. From what my roommate says, it's guys "frolicking," playing tag or something, naked, fully exposed, shameless, yada yada yada.

If the movie was the source of tonight's disaster, I am surprised about two things. One, so many people were actually encouraging this moment. Two, only one person warned her against it, and even that warning was about naked butts. No mention of frolicking joysticks. I kind of feel bad, because I had seen her comment about it not being rated and her interpretation of that. I knew she was probably wrong, but since I didn't know the movie it didn't register to chime in with some doubts. Besides, I was probably still a little bitter about what happened between the two of us. Subconsciously I probably wanted there to be shrieks of horror at whatever was going to be in that movie. I'm glad it wasn't worse, though I know there are people who think there can be nothing worse than seeing a man naked.

If things with Peter and Molly don't work out, I hope this isn't the reason. She's no more guilty about this than I was about the free show I got, eh Pete?

I make Peter Parley sick

On Pondering Peter's blog (link is on the right), Peter Parley writes:

On the other hand, you have people like Joe Johnson, who seems to be too far on the other end of the spectrum when it comes to understanding what is good and what is bad. Over on his blog, which I had never read until today, he laughs about the time a woman showed him her bare breasts. I am not a goody-goody, but I think I have a good understanding of what is right and what is wrong. That said, I have never seen a woman's breasts. He also talks about kissing a girl on the third date, as if it is perfectly normal; I feel bad for any girl he goes out with, if they have to deal with those expectations. I get the impression that he wouldn't think it was worth it to date a girl for six or seven months if he didn't get any action out of it, and that makes me sick.

Where to begin. That Peter feels good about himself, fine. That he feels Molly is an honorable woman, I can't disagree. That I go "too far on the other end of the spectrum when it comes to understanding what is good and what is bad," he can stick that opinion in his Sacrament cup and choke on it. I didn't ask the girl to show me her breasts but I wasn't going to stomp around in righteous indignation when she did it. I didn't look back hoping she would, but when she did I didn't cry and get on my knees and beg forgiveness, because I didn't do anything wrong.

As for the expectations he thinks I put on women, that is just stupid. I did date Molly for a long, long time and was interested in her and never tried to kiss her except once on the cheek. I knew better and I didn't think any less of her. I got news for you Peter, kissing on the third date is normal, even for upstanding LDS kids who teach Elder's Quorum and go home teaching and go to the temple and feel fine with it.

I should make clear that when I say dating in Utah is a dishonest game, I don't necessarily think everyone's bad. It's just that with so many LDS singles to choose from, people seem to have come to believe it's OK to be less than forthcoming. With Molly I'm willing to believe maybe she was just naive. I hope that's the case. Otherwise, I have a hard time with a girl who is OK with hanging out with a guy every day for weeks on end, knowing that he might have a wish to create a serious relationship and you letting him believe it when you know you have no interest. I hope that wasn't true with Molly.

Goin' to California

I gave two weeks notice to my boss yesterday, so it's official. I'm going home the weekend of July 8. Despite everything I've had a good time here, made some friends. I just can't stand the dating scene here.

Laughs I can only share now

Here are a few fun moments from the time I was dating Molly.

I see on her board there is a comment from an Uncle Wrinkle. I doubt anyone who was hiking at the canyon that day would ever see our board, but the incident was kind of funny. You park in the canyon and it's about a half-hour walk or so to the hot pot pools. On our way we passed a group of about 8 or so people going the other way. Two girls had towels on and at least one had nothing else. One guy was completely naked, except for his shoes, though I don't think Molly saw it otherwise she would have screamed. He was between a couple of people and us, but I saw him. When we got past them I turned to look back at them a few feet later. One of the girls flashed her breasts at me and laughed and went on her way. I laughed too. Honestly I try to avoid seeing that, but the fact it was completely accidental on my part spared me any guilt. On the other side, when Molly and I got to the hot pots she wore a t-shirt and shorts over her bathing suit and asked me to look away when she got in. Quite a contrast. I told her I already saw more than I bargained for and she said "Thank you."

I wanted to go see a PG movie one time and she said if parents have to question whether their kids should see it then it wasn't worth seeing for anyone. I tried to point out that when I was teaching CTR5's back home the manual suggested we not teach repentance to kids too young because they might be too young to understand it. I said there are some things parents can see that kids can't. She disagreed, saying she wouldn't watch any movie she would feel uncomfortable watching with the Savior. One time she watched Goonies and felt bad because one of the good kids tied up the other brother, who got out and stole a bike. Plus there were two kids kissing. No PG movies ever since.

She thought Neleh on Survivor sinned because the men and women sleep under the same roof. That was the only season she ever watched and she only watched it once, because when she saw Neleh in the situation it made her really sad. (This is according to her.) When I told her a naked gay guy won the first Survivor I thought she was going to cry.

When I told her I want to return to California she asked why I would go back to a place where so many stores are open on Sunday.

When I explained to her that there were not only Mormon Democrats, but that were a couple in Congress and that one was minority leader, she asked if their bishops let them have recommends.

There's more . . . I'll be back.

Now who's being naive?

I heard that line on The Simpsons, but decided to look it up and it apparently started with The Godfather. Molly and I met and dated and she was not like any other girl I ever dated. Not in any spectacular way. I just thought she was pretty naive, but after the last month I wonder if I was the one who couldn't see the obvious.

If you've read Molly's blog you see how we met. I think I got kind of swept up in her "cuteness." There was really no other way to describe it. She was so intent on doing things perfectly and so cheerful about it. She was fun to be around, but weeks later I'm counting my blessings I didn't get more attached to her. We never kissed. If we ever even held hands it was to help her up a step or something like that. She didn't resist that. I guess that because I sensed from the beginning that this wasn't a girl you kiss to find out you're serious that "serious" starts with other signs. The fact that she called me Joseph Smith Johnson all the time was something I thought was cute.

For three weeks we saw each other every day. I always had to have her home around midnight, most nights 11 p.m. I guess that's what made me think something was serious. Tell me, people, do you hang out with someone of the opposite gender everyday for three weeks without there being something going on? I would call and she would have no problem calling back. Then one day she stopped. No warning, no nothing. The last time I saw her we watched Beauty and the Beast at her house. I gave her a kiss on the cheek when I left. Believe me, for Molly that was a bold move.

I called her the next day and left a message. I did that a few days and got no call back. I thought it had something to do with the kiss on the cheek. I called once, she picked up the phone and said hello, and I said Molly and she started repeating hello? Hello? It's pretty clear to me she knew who it was. A few more calls and nothing. No return calls, nothing. A couple weeks later I'm at the Creamery and I see her with Peter Parley. I wanted to talk to her, to see if I could pull her aside and at least get a basic explanation. No chance. She got Peter out of there quick. I saw Peter a couple days later and he didn't remember my name, but that was no big deal. I shouldn't have told him Molly and I had dated, probably should have left that up to her. By that time Emily had told me about Molly's blog so I finally figured out what had happened.

That she's with someone else is fine. Again, it's about the honesty. She never told me she had a missionary. She never gave me any indication she would be cutting things off suddenly. She let me spend everyday for three weeks with her and not once thought to tell me I might be wasting my time.

There were signs we wouldn't work. At times it was clear she had trouble with some parts of my life. Growing up in California I saw some things most kids in Utah won't see, but didn't participate in any of them. I told her my date to the prom was drunk and she asked one why I went with a girl who would drink and two why I would go to a prom if most the kids were either drinking, getting naked, or both. I'd hate for her to find out how much of that was probably going on at her prom, even in Utah. Still, she didn't argue long about those things and I just kind of passed it off as Molly's learning curve being a lot higher than other girls.

When it was clear it was over I was far less upset than with the other two. For one, she and I were clearly not a good match. For two, I had already had those other experiences. So I wish Peter and Molly well and I hope she sends an invite, though I'd sure like to know why they think Californians are such scum. Maybe I don't want an invite.

After these three experiences I have concluded that dating in Utah is filled with dishonesty. To be treated fairly should not be expected.

Four hours old and already a link!

OK I just checked Molly's blog and she's already linking me. I'm still going to give her a shot at telling our story before I do. Honest, Molly, I'm mostly curious, not all that mad anymore.

Molly gets a head start

So far she has chosen to ignore the chance to talk to me or say much about me on the blog. For now I'm going to let her have a head start and see if she takes the opportunity to discuss her relationship with me. That's not just being nice on my part. I'd really like to know what happened. I can only guarantee you about six hours Molly. After that, I'll tell my version.

How Ross became Milhouse

Lisa was one of the girls who used to come hang out at our apartment. I'll use Simpson names in this post. Lisa is from the Northeast U.S. and she and I hit it off from the beginning. Maybe if I hadn't met Marissa I would have asked Lisa out sooner. But when I got to Provo it was October and I think she had just broken up with some guy. Anyway, we became good friends and she was really cool when I was trying to figure out what had happened with Marissa. I really enjoyed being around her, but by the time Marissa and I were done, Lisa had started dating "Nelson." I don't know Nelson well at all. He's from Idaho, seems decent enough. Lisa and I never talked about him.

One Sunday I went by myself over to the girls' apartment and was chatting with all of them. Then Lisa, Maggie and I started talking and then it was just me and Lisa. I don't remember specifically what we were talking about, but the energy of that conversation was a bit intense. I think we were both frustrated with different things, though in hindsight it might have been a frustration that we weren't together.

About an hour later she and Maggie came over to our place. Maggie said she told Lisa she had to talk to me. So Lisa and I go outside and Maggie hangs out with my roomies. Lisa said after I left she started crying in front of Maggie saying things like she didn't want me to leave, that she could talk to me endlessly, all that kind of stuff. That's when Maggie told her she had to handle it. I'm just thrilled, because I had gone out with another girl a couple times but it wasn't going anywhere. And I really had feelings for Lisa. It was a great moment. We kissed right there. The bad thing is, it was the best moment we had together. She broke up with Nelson, but never really let him go. She didn't tell Nelson about me, ever. One time she came over and wanted to hear a song my roommate Bart had. Bart likes old music and had this Linda Ronstadt song called I Never Will Marry. She left and I said to Bart What in Hell was that? At times things were really good, but other times it was just weird. We couldn't hold hands in public, nothing. But she insisted she loved me and wanted things to continue.

A few weeks into our relationship my roommates convinced me to host them on a trip to California. They paid for everything, even though they didn't have to. We ate at In-N-Out four times, went to Disneyland and to the beach a couple times. We also went to UCLA, because Bart wanted to see it. I got Lisa a sweatshirt there. I still love how it looks on her. When I got back, though, nothing really changed. It was this relationship that wasn't public, seemed to moving nowhere and gave me nothing but insecurity. One day I started talking to her about it and she just said she wasn't ready to commit to anything. She was honest with me, just not with everyone else, including Nelson. So I said we should be friends. I was frustrated for weeks with that, because I loved her and felt like I just didn't know what it was that kept us apart. We kept hanging out a lot, but now I had become the one she was keeping secrets from. One night, it was after Molly and I started dating but before I thought things were serious there, I tried to kiss Lisa in hopes we could start up again. She backed away, saying it wouldn't be good because of what was going on with her and Nelson. It was the first time I had heard she was back together with him. And they had been together at least a few weeks. Despite all that, Lisa and I have become really good friends now that we don't have any secrets from each other, or from anyone really. It's what I've been trying to find out here all along, an honest relationship. Unfortunately, I have that relationship with someone I can't have. Lisa hates Molly because of what happened, but when I remind her of our situation she shuts up. Honestly, it still frustrates me that she's with Nelson, but I will support her in that.

Marissa's trip to Bountiful

This is the first of three stories I'll tell you about. These stories represent my dating experience in Utah. Molly comes third. Sorry for those of you dying to know what happened between her and me. If I'm good today I'll get to that story before the day is out.

In November I'd been in Provo about a couple weeks. I managed to find an apartment with an opening, because some BYU student had left and they let me in. I had three roommates from BYU and two from UVSC. Good guys, the lot of them. We go to this ward activity. Usually I stick with the guys from my apartment and a group of girls that hang out at our place a lot. But this night I saw a couple girls I hadn't seen before. Feeling unusually brave I go introduce myself. I hit it off with one more than the other and by the end of the night I had her phone number and tentative plans to go out.

Let's call her Marissa. I'll use assumed names except for the people you already know about. Marissa and I go out on a couple dates, IM each other a bunch and have these late night conversations on the phone. We kissed on the third date and didn't have any trouble getting that started from then on. I was thinking to myself how cool it was that I had only been in Utah a few weeks and may already have found the one. She is smart, funny, and "easy on the eyes" as my grandpa used to say.

Now here's where the hindsight starts to kick in. Marissa goes out with her "girlfriends" alot. At first it was about two nights a week, then it started getting more frequent. Because I met her when she was out with a girlfriend, it didn't strike me as odd at all. Some weekends she wasn't available at all because she would be away visiting her family in Bountiful. Again, not so weird.

So one time I ask her if she wants to go out on a Friday night. She says she can't because she and all her girlfriends have plans. That's fine. So I get a couple of my roommates to go to a dollar movie. We're all seated and in walk four of Marissa's closest friends. They don't see me and they sit a couple rows ahead of me. Now think about this. I really like this girl and want to believe the best about her. Maybe it's another group of friends she's with. This is where Marissa turns out to not be very smart. On Saturday afternoon we go for a walk on the BYU campus and I ask her how her night was. I wasn't trying to trap her or anything, but she said it went fine, that she and Rachel (all assumed names) and Monica (like the Friends reference?) went to Salt Lake City. Interesting, I said, because Rachel and Monica sat in front of me at the movie. She blushed like I had never seen. And that was when things changed. So I said what was the real story. She apologized, was really embarrassed, though she wasn't all that remorseful. She admitted she'd been on a date with Ross (we continue the Friends thing) and that she didn't want to tell me because she thought it might hurt my feelings. Well, of course it did hurt my feelings, or it made me a little jealous. Since we kissed as often as we did I guess I assumed that I thought we were somewhat exclusive, but I had to admit we'd never said that. I told her if she wanted to keep dating other guys, that's fine. Just be honest with me.

Should I have ended it right there? I'd like to think anyone deserves a second chance. Besides, I really had feelings for Marissa and thought she and I were a good match. For the next couple weeks things were kind of normal, but a little edgy. It was like we had lost some momentum, but it seemed like we were still trying to keep what we had. A couple weekends later she tells me she's going to see her family in Bountiful for the weekend. Going alone? I asked her. No, she said, she was taking Monica with her. That much was true. But on Saturday my roommate and I went for a drive. I like roadtrips, so even a four-hour drive to nowhere seems like a good day to me. We're traveling up a canyon by Spanish Fork when he tells me that Ross had gone with Marissa. Monica went too, but Ross going along was a big deal. She had never invited me up there, not even when she was just going for the night. She didn't outright lie to me, but she withheld something that was important to me, and yes I think it was my business.

I mean, does it not matter when you are involved with someone, especially when you're kissing them, what they think is happening with the relationship? Here's where it's worse. One of my roommates knew Ross and knew what was happening between the two of them. He never said anything to me, but he did tell the roommate who was on the drive with me. That rommate called Marissa at her work early Friday and tried to convince her to tell me before she left. She told him she'd call him back, but never did. So not only am I getting dogged by a girl I think is pretty serious about me, I'm seemingly the only one who isn't aware of it. Now I'm freaking mad and humiliated.

On Monday afternoon I called Marissa to basically say we can't see each other anymore if we can't be "completely" honest about who we're hanging out with. I get far enough into the conversation to let her know I was annoyed when she told me she and Ross got engaged over the weekend.

Good luck I told her. To this day she's never apologized. She even sent me an invite to her wedding. Unbelievable. There she is with Ross in one of those cheesy Mormon wedding photos. I pinned it up in my room for a while as kind of a reminder. By the time I got the invite it wasn't like I wanted her back, I just wanted those months back. My roommates were amazed at her nerve, even the one who didn't tell me about her and Ross. He and I had a tough time for a while, but he's a good guy and fun to be around. I don't trust him 100% and he knows it. Because my friends were so surprised by what happened, I thought it was a rare thing. I talked to my Bishop about it and he said it seemed unusual. He also tried to tell me something my parents had, that making the kind of move I did just to get married might be unrealistic. I'll get to that discussion later on. Anyway, I thought maybe I just got a rare, bad experience when I dated Marissa. Then I started dating Lisa.

Waiting for The Who

While we all anxiously await for Molly Monson's review of The Who, I thought I'd add an alternative voice from someone who had a less-than-holy experience with Ms. Monson. This blog isn't so much about me as it is about dating in Utah (hence the title), so I don't think I'll post here forever. I think I'll keep it going as long as I'm here in Utah Valley. Once I return to California I'll post another blog with a different title. And maybe there I'll post more info about myself personally.

For now, here's all you need to know. I grew up in Southern California, L.A. area more specifically. My parents were converts a couple years before I was born and they were quite grateful for the conversion, so they named me Joseph Smith Johnson. The only one who ever insisted on calling me by my full name was Molly. I served a mission in South America, the Spanish-speaking part and got home three years ago. I did two years of school in California, then decided I'd spend a year in Utah. I found enough classes that I could do online and I haven't kept completely up with where I would have been had I stayed, but I've made progress. I moved here for a few reasons, but only one was big. I moved here thinking with all the Mormons my age here I might have a better chance of meeting someone I could marry. I had heard others had done that and thought I'd give it a shot. My parents thought it was a bad idea and after eight months I'd say they were probably right. But, now I know. I'll be going home soon and I can put this experience in my brain's learning channel.

I've got to run an errand, so maybe I'll come back soon and post more. I have a few stories to tell about dating in Utah, Molly being the most recent. I'll get around to her. She's a good woman and I am sure she'll make a fine wife, probably for Peter. I just can't believe how good people can justify some of the behavior I've only seen here in Utah. Anyway, I'll post more later.